Free to play

[mortal Offline]

Anumit said:

Im totally agree with Gangrel. With pay to play the Prelude Factory receive money for salary, server administration and for future expansions. We receive in exchange a good quality and 14 years-old-free gothic game. Im curios about the fee( im currently unemployed and this…suck :(( )

I like your mindset not only at this post but in general ,as for work I bet you will find one soon just be positive

[moderator Offline]

I fully support pay to play. Most free to play titles have a terrible reputation, and will instantly tarnish the product in my view. If we want this game to expand, if we want proper content, we have to pay towards it. I’ll take an upfront transaction over microtransactions any day.

[mortal Offline]

Gangrel_Prince said:

Anumit said:

Im totally agree with Gangrel. With pay to play the Prelude Factory receive money for salary, server administration and for future expansions. We receive in exchange a good quality and 14 years-old-free gothic game. Im curios about the fee( im currently unemployed and this…suck :(( )

I like your mindset not only at this post but in general ,as for work I bet you will find one soon just be positive

Not sure if the first part is sarcasm or not, but thanks.

[mortal Offline]

Gangrel_Prince said:

Chronocidal said:

thanks …

I’m not sure if other games use any similiar methods but my suggestion was a twist on the «freemium» method,

after all I’m sure we all want the developers to make cash with the game, as long as its profitable then we the future players get new content along the way rather then having to replay the same stuff endlessly for years,

this way those who want to spend the cash can and those who cant dont «have to» … its a «pay not to grind» option that isnt the same as «pay to win»,

unfortunately of course the B2P DLC expansion concept does mean that some will complain about «pay walls» since such content would be «locked out» for those who dont buy the DLC … but even that can be mitigated by the inclusion of some content in each expansion being availible to existing B2P players,

for example :-

expansion comes out and contains (using typical MMO examples)… new level cap, new race, new classes(?), new weapons, new maps,  and new dungeons

of these the new maps, new level cap and any new weapons that are allowed to existing classes(?) is availible to existing players but everything else is «locked» until the player purchases the DLC,

this way existing B2P players get a little something to keep them interested and playing, while at the same time we encourage the purchase of the new «locked» content

If that happens I wont bother with Project Dogmat anymore
Free to Play ( your freemium is included ) guarantees lots of retarded kids + low quality + Pay to win.
Pay not to grind is NEVER ENOUGH !!! Pay not to grind works only in LOL and thats moba and not even close
to the complexity of a mmo

you did read my post prior to the one you quoted?

at no time did I suggest that dogmat should be a F2P or Freemium game … I advocated a B2P with P2P premium and B2P DLC’s

[mortal Offline]

1.You did suggested about a twist of the freemium model more precisely » I’m not sure if other games use any similiar methods but my suggestion was a twist on the «freemium» method » that’s your words not mine

2.»pay not to grind» is just a step before pay to win

3.Seriously don’t you have 15-20 dollars monthly for quality entertainment, that’s pathetic  

[mortal Offline]

I agree that we do not need «pay not to grind » and in my mind the two best options are :
-buy the game and expansions (which others have mentioned might not be very sustainable )
-or the monthly or annual fee (which believe or not most people are open too if it is priced at a reasonable rate

As for your last point well I don’t think it is ‘pathetic’ , it just means  they don’t have the same disposale income to pay 15-20 dollars on a monthly basis .

[mortal Offline]

Gangrel_Prince said:

that’s pathetic  

Please don’t say that, 20 dolars are a lot of money in some parts of the world.

[mortal Offline]

Anumit said:

Gangrel_Prince said:

that’s pathetic  

Please don’t say that, 20 dolars are a lot of money in some parts of the world.

No its not a lot of money , @Chronocidal is a 47 year old Australian, that’s little money there , he is not from Uganda

[mortal Offline]

yes I did use those words .. but it was meant to be taken in context with my previous post (since there are few games that are B2P yet have a premium subscription model as well so thats why I referrenced the «freemium» which is as we all know a F2P game with a premium P2P option),

no I dont think $20/mnth is too much and yes I could afford that even at the rubbish exchange rate the AUD is currently enjoying lol,

but I’d probably be more in favour of a $10/mnth or a P2P deal that gives discount for longer terms of subscription … ie: $20/mnth or $120/yr type of thing (but I’d be expecting both a damn decent game and some good regular expansions that arnt an extra expense),

thats when the burn really sets in .. using WoW as the prime offender which has a purchased game (first expense) then a sub for P2P (second ongoing expense) then seperate expansions which you have to buy (third expense),

removing one of these 3 expenses would be ideal but I could live with it if the ongoing subscripton was more affordable

oh and another idea …. if P2P is the way it goes could we please have it so your purchased game-time doesnt just expire on a set date .. but has to be used up,

making logging in to the game something you want to do as opposed to feeling you have to do

[mortal Offline]

Chronocidal said:

oh and another idea …. if P2P is the way it goes could we please have it so your purchased game-time doesnt just expire on a set date .. but has to be used up,

making logging in to the game something you want to do as opposed to feeling you have to do

That’s an interesting idea but I don’t know if this can work , maybe have the classical P2P and one more option that you buy the time you play.

[mortal Offline]

I was going to throw my two cents, but Gangrel already said it all. So Im just gonna sit back and let him argue for me as well. 

[mortal Offline]

In-game time sounds great in theory,but im not sure this will work in real life.

[mortal Offline]

theres a few freemium games that use the «in game time» system .. so its definately a system that can work, wether it suits dogmat is another discussion lol,

I suppose I like the idea for a number of reasons ….

1) it insulates the subscriber from IRL problems that may prevent them from loggin in and using their «paid time» prior to it expiring (computer blowing up, holidays away, internet connection issues etc etc)

2) it encourages or at least aids in the return of absentee players since they may have «time left»  and therefore more inclined to return since they dont have to shell out a full sub term just to log in

3) it removes the feeling that you have to log in to the game because you paid for the time (this may mean dissatisfied players simply stop logging in rather then burn up their remaining sub as griefers) meaning that a player who logs in actually wants to be there and isnt under a form of obligation to show up

4) it encourages the participation of casual gamers (weekend warriors) who may only have a few hours a week due to IRL responsibilities who might otherwise view a sub system as a waste of money due to their limited availible gaming time

[mortal Offline]

Chronocidal said:

theres a few freemium games that use the «in game time» system .. so its definately a system that can work, wether it suits dogmat is another discussion lol,

I suppose I like the idea for a number of reasons ….

1) it insulates the subscriber from IRL problems that may prevent them from loggin in and using their «paid time» prior to it expiring (computer blowing up, holidays away, internet connection issues etc etc)

2) it encourages or at least aids in the return of absentee players since they may have «time left»  and therefore more inclined to return since they dont have to shell out a full sub term just to log in

3) it removes the feeling that you have to log in to the game because you paid for the time (this may mean dissatisfied players simply stop logging in rather then burn up their remaining sub as griefers) meaning that a player who logs in actually wants to be there and isnt under a form of obligation to show up

4) it encourages the participation of casual gamers (weekend warriors) who may only have a few hours a week due to IRL responsibilities who might otherwise view a sub system as a waste of money due to their limited availible gaming time

Correct, but think about this: if i paid 1 year subscription and i only login 2 times per week to play 5 hours, it takes a lot to consume the subscription. For me its superamazing but for the game developers… im not that sure. Its working only if the playerbase is huge.

[moderator Offline]

The game token system that World of Warcraft has would work, if we are talking game time. People with high disposable income would buy tokens with real money, and people who do not have money could buy the tokens in game for in-game currency. Regardless, that token of game time has been paid for as if it were a subscription. Perhaps we could implement this and a standard subscription model, so that it would still cater for those with lesser disposable finances.

[mortal Offline]

If p2p:

If it is possible to buy a subscription for game currency from other players, it will solve several problems at once.

1. Some players will invest in a subscription in order to avoid possible inflation or for other reasons.

2. Other, with broader financial capabilities, will buy it for real money and sell those to want to play «for free» ,at a fixed price.

3. Visitors can play «for free», spending only the money in-game.

4. This model has the potential to bring great profits to developers.

Sorry for bad English, i use google translator. 

[mortal Offline]

Let’s make something clear 

Do you REALLY want Project Dogmat to become what WOD mmo should have been ? If the answer YES be ready to

PAY for it. That means supporting the kickstarter at October , spreading the word and being in favor of P2P when the game launches.

Project Dogmat belongs to a NICHE genre , expect 10.000 to a max 100.000 players ( I hope more but I am being realistic here ). 

Your suggestions would ONLY work if Project Dogmat would target a quite big audience but that’s not the case.

Finally like it or not Project Dogmat is our last chance to get the game we want

[moderator Offline]

Oh I’m fully agreed on the pay to play model being the best model. I imagine most forum members here are as well. The trouble with the MMO market as a whole is that it has kinda declined to the point that near everything has switched to the free to play/microtransaction model. 

If Dogmat wanted to target beyond the niche market, then the market expectation is generally the free to play model. With that in mind, the game time token system might help grow the player base a little, but it is hard to say. EVE Online uses a similar system with their PLEX license, and they are very much a niche title as well. So it can work. But there are a lot of scenarios to think about.

[mortal Offline]

I hope the developpers will be open to different payment fee (yearly , monthly , pay as you go ect … )
I wouldn’t mind getting the developper’s approximation of how much we will need to pay ect

[mortal Offline]

On this topic i feel that runscapes original system, or wows system, is perfect. Make a certain amount of game content available for b2p (or f2p for like a week so they can get an idea of the game…. has to be long enough to become a vampire though so they can see how that looks too) and then make there be premium p2p content like in runescape. «You can easily enjoy the game on b2p but if you really want to go places you have to p2p» thatll maximize things.

[mortal Offline]

I’d be pretty happy with P2P, seems to me like it’s the simplest way for developers to upkeep with costs for further development and hosting.

[mortal Offline]

I vote for P2P

[mortal Offline]

Build a strong fan community that doesn’t feel fan/dev but more like a family. I know it sounds like catering, but if you can do this you’ll have people more inclined to pay a monthly subscription/buy the game/buy items that are cosmetic. Already, alot of the fans are from the WoD pen and paper community and VTM: Bloodlines…i’ve seen from the years of following CCP’s ‘progress’ that many people are loyal and want a game that they can ‘sink their fangs into’ ;). If you have a world that is driven by its community (but also of course content made but you, the devs) i think its do able. 

Doesn't your great pride fear God any longer?

[mortal Offline]

Hi to all!! I need to say that i think you must reconsider the idea of P2P…Most of the player can’t spend money anytime…If the team need money for their reason the best choise is B2P if F2P is not possible.Many people wait for this game from years and if you chose P2P I think they will be disappointed. However, I hope you will do the best thing

[mortal Offline]

AiryKai wrote:

First we consider a P2P system.

B2P is less preferred, but possible.

F2P – only if there are no other ways. But this is unlikely to happen.

This problem is not solved still.

Going P2P will be a mistake.  The game, no matter how wonderful will not have longevity in the modern MMO P2P system.  The number one reason behind this is community size and general interest.   There is just not enough interest on a large enough scale to justify the price of the game with only 30 days of included time.  If P2P is chosen, sales will be decent and you’ll end up with the majority of people losing enough interest to shave off the monthly fee from their budget.

Free 2 Play is also a mistake.  F2P is generally a haven for currency sellers and spammers, not to mention drawing those that literally have NO interest in the game other than to «see what the fuss is about».  Talk about ruining starter zones/areas. F2P tutorial starting areas are troll-breeding grounds.

The one viable option, if done correctly, is the B2P options that has no restrictions on gameplay.  Have an optional $10 (USD) monthly fee for premium status that gives some type of «bonus» that isn’t game-breaking or considered Pay2Win (i.e., in other games xp boosts, skill-learning boosts, earned-currency boosts, and a bonus monthly «Cash Shop» earning for cosmetics).

The KEY to having a successful MMO is a GOOD cosmetic cash shop, and in something like Project Dogmat the options are endless.  I mean absolutely FILL the shop with every type of outfit, emote, apartment/condo/house/villa decorations that you can pump out. Additionally, make it CHEAP.  2 bucks for a dark-alley trench-coat, a buck-fifty for stylish retro converse tennis shoes, etc…  Fill it to the BRIM!  Micro the outfits down to the jewelry, then have «bundle sales» on «full outfits».  Name them something along the lines of «Dracul’s Masquerade Attire» letting some have a full Dracula-esque costume.  Have another one called something like «Alley Beat Cop Attire», having the classic cheap trench coat, non-tailored pants/shirt outfit with scuffed shoes, cheap tie, and bonus styrofoam cup of coffee.  I’m just throwing ideas out there.  There are plenty of ways to make money, and in a DIGITAL economy the sky’s the limit.  No cost for materials, elongated time of construction (other than the developers creating them, that is), etc allows the Cash Shop to be an awesome money-maker.

Now, don’t make the mistake of not having any cool outfits outside of the Cash Shop, as this just alienates players that would otherwise show interest.  However, making the cash shop less than affordable, even a bargain, would be an awesome way to go.  Don’t forget sales, promotions, holiday events, etc…

Also, having an optional monthly fee LESS than the competition?  Yeah…

B2P can sustain itself…if done correctly.  Monthly fees are over and the games that have the 15 buck monthly are showing it.  People can argue that 15 bucks per month isn’t that much all they want, but the fact is that there are many homes that have more than one player playing these games.  Compound that «low» monthly fee by 3 or 4 and you’re getting into a monthly fee of $40 to $60 bucks..every month.

I’m really interested in seeing this game actually last.  It appeals to me and hopefully appeals to others.

To make a short story long (TL:DR), I vote for the B2P option.  The Secret World, GW2, Crowfall (upcoming), Elder Scrolls Online (after switching from P2P), are all examples of the B2P model. Their cash shops may not be up to par, but they’re surviving (from what I currently know).  Imagine a game that actually had a GOOD non-pay2win cash could do.  That’s one thing I do like about The Secret World and GW2: the cosmetic items available.  Cosmetics are the way to go.  You better believe that I want my Vamp looking good or my human hunter detective looking bad, balding, and slightly overweight…